Feeling young, reparenting, and where my head is at lately

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On birth order, and Heads of House, etc, part two...

okay, back in June, did a little post, and going to reprint it here, with the various comments people put up at the time, and then add some more after that, both what I've found, and my personal experiences.

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I was chatting the other day with a friend, and the converstation switched to basic personality types, how some, like my Husband or her, were ones who felt comfortable being the leader in relationships, natural Heads of House (HOH), if you will.

And how others, such as myself, feel more comfortable when we aren't in a HOH position.

From there, got to thinking of how she, and my Husband, and other HOHs that I know, are overwhelmingly first born.Whereas many who prefer not to be the HOH, and are in fact, the spankee in their relationships, are usually not the first born.So, obviously my sample size is small, so what has been your experience?

(and feel free to add in your own experiences, and observations, people....)


6 comments:
Beckey said...
You are so right Angie! I'm the middle girl of 3 and my older sister is still in a DD relationship she is a bit more of a boss. I tend to flip between roles and my younger sister really craves having to obey someone.With my husband he is the oldest and the only boy in his family and as he had a single mother he has developed a dominant personality as he had to run the house in a way from an early age.

SandyB said...
My family must be in the minority then. I'm the eldest of three, really laid back and most of the time just go with the flow. Brother is a year younger, quite assertive in his working life, but is a bit hen-pecked by his wife. Maybe just me, but I find it really unattractive in a guy, esp one who is 6"4and really BIG. Younger sister, by 10 years, is VERY in charge. She's not in a relationship, but she's the person who gets things done, always speaks her mind and bosses everyone around.


Mrs M said...
This is very interesting, I am the last born in my family - although there is a considerable age difference between us.However I consider myself a submissive, but in actuality struggle with not leading in ways (and have lead in social groups before).I love submitting, and enjoy being led when it comes to my sexual relationships but struggle outside of that.At work I am the boss, and I use leadership as a way to overcome my personal fears and shyness.Therefore I find it quite hard to submit sometimes, but DD is the best thing that ever happened to me and I love kneeling at my husbands feet (so to speak) ;-)Great post, thanks for the thoughts...(hugs)Mrs M


Mary said...
I'm number 4 of 5. My 2 older sisters (#1 and #3) and only brother (#2) are all HOH types, particularly my brother and sister #3. I'm more submissive, though not totally so. My little sister (#5) is very submissive. So I think the birth order does make a difference but it isn't a direct relationship.Mary



allystepsforward said...
This is a complicated answer for us: Brad is actually the youngest sibling but there is a signicant age difference between older brother and sister, also, he is the only child of the man him mom married and stayed with. Siblings are 1/2 sibs. If I remember correctly, I have heard that the technically gives him first born traits. He defianately has some of the. However, his father modeled complete passivity in his marriage, he didn't do anything but mind his own business and ignore everybody else most of the time. Thank God Brad is not like that, but sometimes he is more passive than I'd like. I, on the other hand, was a first born, and fit the role well. During most of our marriage we struggled over control. It wasn't horrible, but there were some pretty rough times here and there. Now that I'm the submissive partner, I am happier, he is happier... Ally



Christian said...
Hello Angie-Interesting blog. I have been thinking about doing one of these myself. Well, you pretty much know my situation already, but for others here...I am the last born. My wife is first born. And just like you said in your question she is the Dominant in our relationship. That is weird I never thought about that. But I am a switch technically so I am a little bit of a fluke for your theory. Regards,Christian

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Well hi all, and so much thanks for answering!

As for my particular background, I'm the third of four sisters, and there is about 2 years apart between each of us. For a reasons I'll get into at another post, I was however in my preteen and teen years, very much treated as the baby of the family.

My sisters are all in what I would call Head of House relationships, where their Husbands are in charge. While I suspect that they may also get spanked, that is something we've never talked about. While my 2nd sister is by far and away more outgoing and assertive than I am, she is like me, much more content when her Husband simply takes charge.

My oldest and younger sisters however, are both very dominant personalities, (lets call it bossy- sounds so much nicer than bitchy....) and while their Husbands are in charge, its sometimes a struggle for them to let go. Whenever they are in a group situation outside their marriage, they are Very much the ones who like to be the group/project leaders, organizing things, 'telling' others what and 'how' things should be done, etc. I could easily see either one giving a nonsexual punishment spanking to another woman who didn't do things the way they thought they should be done.

As for me, I've always been the spankee in my relationships (meaning with other women, and my Husband), and prefer not to be in charge. I much prefer the second in command/executive officer position. I will take charge if I need to, I detest management by committee, and sorry if this sounds sexist, but save me from a group of women, all trying to come to a 'consensus' and a 'cooperative' approach to a problem. Gag. Figure out what the problem/goal is, come up with a plan, implement the plan. It's not that tough, people.



My Husband is first born, older by several years then his sister, and and their sisters are between 1 1/2 to four years apart from each other. His Dad was often away for long times for work, so he was very much 'in charge' of his sisters, even when they were teens, and they went over his lap more then once. My Husband is obviously very much the HOH, and is the same in his day to day life. When we met, he was an Infantry First Sergeant, and later an Infantry Sergeant Major (for those with military backgrounds, that will mean something, for those without, it's really hard to explain....and I don't mean just what the position was.)



And here are some things I found at http://www.birthorderandpersonality.com/index.html
(they also have some cool charts there...)

First Born Children
The first born child is usually the child with the most attention directed at him/her. This common event is part of the reason this particular child turns out the way he/she does. There are two typical types of first born children, compliant and aggressive. The first born in your family can be either one of these two types, and have these typical traits:

Compliant Traits

People Pleasers
Crave Approval
Nurturers
Caregivers
Reliable
Concientious
Cooperative
Team Players
"Grin and bear it" mentatlity

Aggressive Traits
Movers and shakers
Natural leaders
Perfectionists
Driven
Conventional
Always have things under control
Assertive
Want things their way

These two types of first born children may seem very different, but they do share quite a few characteristics.
Common Traits
Energetic
Logical
Ambitious
Enterprising
Scholarly

Middle Children
Middle children are quite often the most difficult children to both read and to raise. Middle children are quite often referred to as the "Mysterious Middle Child", this is due in large part to the fact that there are two types of middle born children. These two types of middle borns are not as clearly defined as the two types of first borns, they do not possess simple "names", therefore for confusion's sake we will refer to them as Middle Born #1 and Middle Born #2.

Middle Born #1

Loner (that's me!)
Quiet Shy
Impatient
Uptight

Middle Born #2
Outgoing
Friendly
Loud
Laid back
Patient

Middle born children are quite difficult to pin down, however they tend to be the opposite of their older sibling. There are however, a few characteristics that both types of middle born share.
Common Traits
Flexible
Diplomatic
Rebellious
Attention seeking
Competitive
Peacemakers

Last Born Children
Last born children are quite often the life of the party.
Last born children tend to be the easiest to define when it comes to the correlation between birth order and personality, this is mostly due to the fact that there is only one main type of last born.

Last Born Traits
Risk takers
Idealists
Good sense of humor
Hard working
Immature (me again)
Attention seeking
Secretive (and again)
Sensitive (and yet again...)
Last born children are often considered the baby of the family, and live up to this role. At times it is difficult for the last born child to find his/her place in the family, as the first and middle child have already left huge footprints to follow in, and carved their own niche into the family.


Only Children
Only children are often referred to as "First Borns in Triplicate", this is due to the fact that these children are extreme versions of first born children. Onlies, as they are affectionately called, tend to be an extrememist in all aspects of life.
Only Traits
Mature faster
Get along well with older people
Responisible
Self-Centered
Perfectionists
Attention seekers
Use adult language
Prefer adult company
Have difficulty sharing
Only children are special type of birth order, in the sense that they are capable of being any of the three "main" types of birth order. However, most of these only children do possess characteristics commonly associated with the aggressive first born child.


Twins can be any one of the three 'main' birth order types, therefore it is nearly impossible to describe them. However, what can be detected is which of the two children is the leader.
Common Leader Traits
Resemble first borns
Aggressive
Loud
Outspoken
Opinionated
Intolerant
Common Follower Traits
Resemble shy middle child
Shy
Loner
Quiet
Blend into the background
Undefiant

Variables
"But, Hey I don't fit your birth order mold!"


There are many variables that can cause the birth order process not to work on some, and this is perfectly normal. Take a look at the variables below and begin to understand why exacty you may not fit into your typical birth order.


Parents
Marital Status
Parenting Style
Critical Eye of parent
Parents' birth order
How strict the parent is

The marital status of the parent is important, as this often determines whether the child had a mother or a father or both. If parents were to get divorced, and one parent maintained sole custody then the child in question would have most traits seen in this parent, regardless of birth order. Parenting style also plays a key role, as this influences how children react in all situations. How you teach your kids shows how they will learn, and in turn shows how they interact with society. The critical eye of the parent can also affect traits in children. If a parent is too critical, a child may have low self confidence, or drive, and he/she may or may not feel good enough, this could cause a rift in the birth order process. The birth order of each parent also comes into question. If one parent was a first born, and the other was an only, then chances are their children will have the common characteristics because of the matching personalities and parenting styles of their parents. However, if one parent was a last born, and the other a twin, then the child may follow their own birth order as there are no overwhelming similarities or differences in the birth order of their parents.


Gender
Double birth order
This does not occur in every instance, but often when there is a female or male born first, and then the child immediately preceeding him/her is of the opposite sex, then the birth order could repeat. Everything is usually still in tact with the birth order process, however you could have two first born children.

Separate Families
More than a five year gap
Start a 'new' family
When there is more than a five year gap between two children, often a "new" is formed. Since the maturity levels of the children are so far apart, the birth order process often repeats itself. This may result in two first borns, or maybe a first born, middle born, last born, and then an only child, all depending on timing.


Adoption/Remarriage
Bumped either up or down on birth order scale
All depends on age at the time and where other kids fall
If adoption occurs, the birth order could be slightly renovated due to the fact that there is now another child in the mix. The same goes for remarriage, and step families. These specific variables both vary by case. It is really dependent on the age at the time of the remarriage/adoption, and where the other children fall in the birth order, if there are other children.

Mental/Physical/Emotional Skills
One aspect slowed could throw off birth order
Mental retardation
Physical handicaps
If there is retardation in one or more of the children, this could prevent the birth order process from being applied. Often when there is a developmental or physical delay in a child, the other children, either older or younger, end up maturing faster and taking care of the child in question. Because these children help to care for the child with handicaps means their birth order is now invalid, as they may react differently to the added responsibility, and stress.

Death of Parent/Sibling
Bump a child either up or down
Have different effects when a parent dies
"Ghost" children
If the death of a sibling occurs, children usually take the role their sibling had in an attempt to make the deceased child still a part of their life. Therefore, often children are bumped either up or down depending on where the child who died was in the birth order process. If a parent dies then children may bump either up or down or just no longer fit into any type of mold. Everything depends on how the child reacts to the death of their parent, and how the rest of their family copes. "Ghost" children occur when a child dies and then another child is born shortly afterwards. The newly born child never knew the deceased child, however he/she did take their place in some sense both for the parents and for their brothers and or sisters. The new child could be a replacement, and take on the characteristics of the other child, as these characteristics are often pushed upon them by their family members.

feel free to leave your own comments and observations,

love,
Angie

Put Lee on a plane today, non fiction

Entry for August 13, 2008 Put Lee on the plane today (nonfiction, no spanking)

Lee is my 'niece', one of the sisters we became guardians to when she was 14. She grew up here, and was spending the summer back with us, after graduation. We just put her on the plane, time for her to go back to the mainland to grad school.

She is such a little goof (and I do mean little, barely five foot, and maybe 100 lbs dripping wet...) and is also the inspiration for a lot of my spanking stories, based on things she has done over the years.

Such as:
at 14, finding her in McDonalds in her shortalls (like bib overalls, but made into shorts) without panties on under them, or her swimsuit, or shirt, or bikini top, AND the buttons on the sides undone.

Or, she and her friends were the ones I went running to see why they were all screaming, to find out that they were practicing to be horror movie starlets.

Or, she and her friends were the ones who had the great do it yourself bikini wax 'incident'. (hint, do not use ordinary parafin wax for trying to do a bikini wax....)

And she was the one who was involved with the 'fashion police' incident at her High School.

Or, she was the one who decided that she didn't have to study, because she was going to have a trust fund, you know...

Oh, and almost forgot, she was the one who at 14, had a major tantrum because I refused to allow her to get the heads of all the band members of Nsynch (or was it Backstreet boys? I can't remember now, but it doesn't really matter as a boy band is a boyband...) tattooed on her lower back..... I still bring that up from time to time to watch her blush and hear her go "Auntiiieeee!"

That girl.
Missing her already.
Angie

for those with whiny teens...

and preteens, a suggestion.

Now, during the summer time, try a little experiment. Because no matter how much you talk to them about it, or they have read about it, they really don't know what life was like before all the modern advances.

So, for a week, or maybe even two, show them what it was like when we were kids.

That means the only tv channels you get are ABC, NBC and CBS, just like the old days. And I'm being generous, out on our farm, we only got two!

Only radio for music, well, actually I guess we had the record player, so cds are okay.

No computer, period. For anything! You want to look something up, go find a library, and use an encylopedia.

But no computer, no email, nothing.

No cell phone.

No computer games, or, xbox or playstation or wii or anything like that.

No handheld little games like the gameboys or newer versions.

No ipods

No dvds

Best of luck, when you tell them to read a book, do some chores, or go outside with their friends.
Angie

Comments(3 total) Post a Comment

Lash …
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A-Friggin'-MEN!!!
Wednesday August 13, 2008 - 05:33pm (CDT) Remove Comment

Lash …
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I should add that while I have no "whiny teens" or preteens of my own I do have six classes of whiny teens to whom I attempt to teach chemistry nine months of the year. So I can relate.
Wednesday August 13, 2008 - 05:35pm (CDT) Remove Comment

OUCH
Offline IM
Very good idea. Don't forget to make them actually WRITE a letter and mail it;go to the bank (between 9 and 5 on weekdays) to get cash; take some pictures, mail in the film and wait for a week to 10 days to find out your favorite shot didn't come out...if they are really impatient give them a Polaroid camera and have them shake the picture to make it develop faster
Wednesday August 13, 2008 - 07:37pm (EDT) Remove Comment

For Moms with daughters in High School....

Entry for August 29, 2007 For Moms and daughters in High School

Okay,with the upcoming school years, some tips for moms whose girls are just getting into HS.

Among the many traumatic events to look forward to, is getting her ready for the Homecoming dance, the winter formal,and Prom. Yes, seems a long ways away, but homecoming is closer than you think.

So, having gone through this with 6 different girls, besides growing up, here are some tips.

1. NO last minute new hair changes. If she wants to try something new, style, color, whatever, it gets done in advance, a trial run. Also, no do it yourself, or having her friends experiment. Never.

2. When picking out her dress, remember to have her bring heels along.

3. Have her start practicing walking in her heels at least two weeks before the dance. You laugh, but when was the last time you saw her in heels? Does she even own a pair? And, once she figures out which heels she wants, have her break them in.

4. Some dresses need slips. Make sure to get one in advance.

5. Explain to her what a slip is...

and one last bit of advice, my Aunt's advice on birth control...
A long time ago when she overheard my cousins discussing birth control, she went and got an asprin and came back, and said this was her birth control pill. When they gave her 'that' look, she said all they needed to do was to put it between their knees and keep it there...

love,
Angie

When did parents stop being parents?

The other day, was talking with some girlfriends, and I had mentioned how the girls were going to be sleeping over at a friends house, and how I had called up the other's girl mom, just to check in, make sure there really was a sleepover, and that one or more adults would be there.

To me, that is just common sense, but I was surprised when several of the women thought that was way to intrusive, and that I should be more trusting, that they are 17, and have to be given space

.And I'm thinking, are you kidding? I remember what my sisters and I were like, I have seen what our other girls got up to, you Bet I'm going to check up on them!So, when did you, or will you stop checking up on your kids? (or,when did your parents stop checking on you?)

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Thursday March 15, 2007 - 11:31am (HST) Edit Delete
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Comments(6 total) Post a Comment

Georg…
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As a parent of two teenagers, if I know the parents, and have checked with them before, I don't always call to confirm the sleepover. If I don't know the parents, you KNOW I'm going to call and confirm.
Thursday March 15, 2007 - 07:11pm (EDT) Remove Comment

Angie
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One of the reasons I check even if I know them, is to make sure that they are going to be around, and have some idea that they are about to have guests for the night; also, to make sure that a sleepover is actually planned, and that she didn't tell Her parents that she is staying over at our place, and then they all go somewhere else!
Thursday March 15, 2007 - 01:34pm (HST) Remove Comment
[dele…
That's very reasonable, Angie. In Germany we have a saying that "trusting is good but control is better". With your call you prove that you are a loving and caring mom.Of course it's easier not to ask and always believe your kids but how often parents are totally shocked after when they hear what happened to their children. For me the latter parenting style is what i call ignoring and neglecting.
Thursday March 15, 2007 - 11:28pm (PDT) Remove Comment
[dele…
I won't stop before they marry.Not PC I know, but I must do what is best and not what is expected by today's trend.
Friday March 16, 2007 - 12:02am (PDT) Remove Comment

Sugar…
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My parents always called and confirmed a sleepover or party with the other parents. A few time they showed up to make sure I was where I said I was going to be when I was a teenager. By the time I left for college they had stopped.
Friday March 16, 2007 - 11:10am (EDT) Remove Comment

tink3…
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I agree with you angie I always check and double check. It is our job as parents to check. Btw what happened to the DDR???
Friday March 16, 2007 - 11:49am (EDT) Remove